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Stadium Location – Cast Your Vote
Hamilton City Council is in the final stages of determining the location for the proposed Pan Am Stadium. We are still reviewing information on both the West Harbour and East Mountain locations.
My final vote on the location will be determined once all the data is in. That said, it’s important to listen the community. I encourage you to share your thoughts with me by email or online through this website. You can also vote in my web poll. Remember, to vote or to view results you must have Java enabled.
I am confident that the best decision for the stadium location will be made taking into account the necessary facts, figures and implications.
thank you for taking this initiative. the west harbour site is of paramount importance if hamilton is to have a regenerative future.
I feel that the future of The Hamilton Tiger-Cats in Hamilton is in jeopardy, and as a Hamilton Tiger-Cats employee, fan and resident of Hamilton, I am tremendously concerned.
The City needs to make this work!
Thank you for including the poll, however a better question would be “Should Future Fund money going to a stadium be in the form of a grant or loan?
I prefer the East Mountain due to parking concerns…but please just location vote to put this stadium in Hamilton somewhere, don’t let this bickering cause us to lose the stadium….
WEST HARBOUR , once in a lifetime opportunity to revitalize the core with the synergy of Pan Am stadium, LRT, West Harbour Waterfront Master Recreation Plan.
I prefer the West Harbour location as it currently has great transit options where as the East mountain does not
West Harbour should be the only site considered. Why pave over good farm land & possible add to more flooding onthe RED HILL VALLEY PARKWAY
I think East Mountain would be a better site
for parking , close to the highways and future
expansion if needed.
East Mountain
In a city that has a struggling downtown and overwhelming urban sprawl I believe the choice is clear for a west harbour stadium. It would be accessible by public transport to all and would increase revenue to local businesses. Who wouldn’t want to get a bite to eat at a restaurant before or after the game?!
Hamilton needs to maximize the use of space and start focussing on revitilization of brownfields and other unsused properties.
Please do not put a stadium on the east mountain. We cannot afford another huge mistake. Put it in the west harbour.
The only choice is the West harbour. After all the years of trying to get things going at that site and the downtown, why waste this opportunity for getting things changed. The stadium should mean far more than the Tiger Cats to this City. Come on people vote for the West harbour and make a difference.
The east mountain site will have better parking and access. I hesitate to go to Ivor Wynn now because of these issues and I certainly won’t be going to Fred’s Folly ( west harbour) site with worse access and parking. If you wish to have people attend events (other than from the downtown core) especially from out of town, I think the only sensible solution is the easy mountain site.
Feast your eyes on this vision and Pan-Am games legacy Terry – for the west harbour site – instead of a massive concrete stadium. This is something to behold, kudos to the visionary individual who put it forth, backed with real $$$.
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http://www.goeastmountain.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/MASTER-PAN-AM-PARK.pdf
Dear Mr. Whitehead,
I think it is becoming obvious that the West Harbour is the place for the stadium. What concerns me the most is the reputation that council has now established for dithering and indecisiveness. If you are not careful, the venue wil be moved to Toronto and all of the discussions will have been in vain. The Tiger Cats have a long history in this city and I am a supporter of the team. Indeed, I was instrumental in arranging for the school choir which I direct to sing at a game last season. Bob Young is thinking of Bob Young, not Hamilton. If we on the mountain throw our support behind the West Harbour project, we will be showing our support for a city that, we who live here, know is an excellent place to be.
Sincerely,
Neville F. Newman
Track and field going to Toronto, soccer to Hamilton now. How will this affect the Pan Am Stadium?
Great idea with the poll! West harbour all the way!
The stadium should have gone at Confederation Park. Not sure why this location was blocked.
The downtown core is nice, but no parking, no access roads. The East Mountain Site is a very good alternative.
Terry:
I support the West Harbour. I want my city core put back together. We drove past the site last Wednesday. What potential. Take a hint from all the successful downtown North American stadia. Don’t listen to big money, listen to the people.
Thanks
why not at the top of the Centennial hill? solid ground… possibiltiy of parking… access much better than the harbour.
East Mountain: pave it and the water issues for Red Hill will multiply.. it is on karst (soft spongy land) as well and this will cause problems… remember Leons having to be moved near Stone Church…
while I want to like the Hamilton Council… I suspect the stadium will go to Mississauga or Toronto soon….
why didn’t you look at a wide variety of sites?
I strongly feel the new stadium has to be the East Mountain location from logistics, highway/expressway access, along with continued arterial expansion, parking, no brown field remediation reducing unecessary costs, developing on green fields, existing commercial facilities along with continued commercial, entertainment development, aerial view of the city, lake ontario, hogtown skyline, etc. I actually agree with Herman Turkstra & originally preferred the Confederation Park site, but this site would be a close second.
This is a no brainer. The west harbour logistically would be a vehicular nightmare, much worse than Ivor Wynne is now, as there is no proper flow to handle massive crowds of traffic. We are a vehicular society, especially the majority with disposable income that can turn the revenue fortunes from red to black. I would definitely stay away from going to the games if located at the west harbour. It assumed the walk from the downtown core is a short walk – this is simply untrue, especially for the older folks. The decision must be made asap, otherwise I believe not only the stadium, thus Hamilton’s fragile reputation to outsiders & within will be on the line, but worse the Tiger-Cats future in Hamilton will definitely be numbered. Ottawa with the revamped Landsdown Park is probably a prime relocation carrot dangling in Bob Young’s crosshairs, epecially since they are suppose to rejoin the CFL in a year or two, they can have an established team in place instead of starting with an expansion one again. I certainly hope this is not the case, therefore please Terry do the right and convince your fellow councillors the East Mountain is the true logical and only choice to make it work for years to come, not only for the Cats, but for concerts, conventions, expansion hotels, the sky is the limit. Otherwise I am afraid Hamilton’s future (especially economic) will be bleak.
If you are from out of town, the West Harbour is not an easy place to get to. If the Ti-cats are going to get out of town support, then the East Mountain is best.
I am fundamentally against urban sprawl, so was initially in favour of west harbour. The TiCats have essentially vetoed west harbour, though, and are forcing the city either to move in the direction of urban sprawl, or to lose both the Games and the football team. As a compromise, I would say go with east mountain, but with the following conditions:
1. Limit the surface area devoted to parking by including some multi-level parking. We simply cannot afford creating more drainage problems in the city
2. Vastly improve public transportation to the stadium. I and thousands of others DO NOT want to have to drive there.
3. Set a hard limit on city funds going to this project. Insist that any costs over-budget are covered by the Ti-Cats or other private investors
I am against the West Harbour site because:
1. Access-this is the most important reason not to locate it here….it will be a nightmare getting out after games, even for those fortunate enough to find a parking spot. And public transit, as it stands, is NOT convenient, especially for those who have any type of handicap (I have COPD, and certainly could not walk to and from that location from King Street).
2. Parking. Have you ever tried to park at Bayfront Park after about 6:30? Impossible. And the neighbours already complain about “outsiders” parking on “their” streets, and the traffic. Some seem to feel Bayfront & Pier 4 parks are for their use only.
3. You will not be able to use the stadium for outdoor concerts; this was tried at Ivor Wynne and didn’t work because the neighbours complained of the noise, etc.
East Mountain is the lesser of two evils. My preference would be Confederation Park; lots of room, no neighbours to complain, lots of parking, access to highways, etc. Or why not rebuild Ivor Wynne, either where it is now or across the street where Scott Park School has sat empty for years. And don’t forget, Civic Stadium (Ivor Wynne) was built on the outskirts of the city, and the city built up around it. Everybody knows how to get there, where to park, etc.
My feeling is that the Mayor and the few chosen ones on the PanAm committee are on a power trip and they’ll put it where THEY want and the hell with anyone else. And we’ll be stuck with another big empty white elephant downtown.
I am against the West Harbour site because:
1. Access-this is the most important reason not to locate it here….it will be a nightmare getting out after games, even for those fortunate enough to find a parking spot. And public transit, as it stands, is NOT convenient, especially for those who have any type of handicap (I have COPD, and certainly could not walk to and from that location from King Street).
2. Parking. Have you ever tried to park at Bayfront Park after about 6:30? Impossible. And the neighbours already complain about “outsiders” parking on “their” streets, and the traffic. Some seem to feel Bayfront & Pier 4 parks are for their use only.
3. You will not be able to use the stadium for outdoor concerts; this was tried at Ivor Wynne and didn’t work because the neighbours complained of the noise, etc.
East Mountain is the lesser of two evils. My preference would be Confederation Park; lots of room, no neighbours to complain, lots of parking, access to highways, etc. Or why not rebuild Ivor Wynne, either where it is now or across the street where Scott Park School has sat empty for years. And don’t forget, Civic Stadium (Ivor Wynne) was built on the outskirts of the city, and the city built up around it. Everybody knows how to get there, where to park, etc.
My feeling is that the Mayor and the few chosen ones on the PanAm committee are on a power trip and it’ll go where THEY want it and the hell with anyone else. And taxpayers will be stuck with another big empty white elephant downtown,(ruining our beautiful harbour spaces) and the Ticats will be playing in London or some other city. Fred’s already lost us the track & field events, Ticats are next. I can hardly wait til the next election!
East Mountain is the most logical choice, but clearly city officials do not know what logic is. I fully anticipate that our elected officials will blow this deal.
East Mountain is the best location… Why have an empty stadium in the harbour??
Here’s the transcript from the last teleconference Ian Troop held on July 27th, 2010. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out which way he is leaning respecting the Pan-Am legacies for Hamilton. Go east mountain.
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Ian Troop : I’d like to take a moment now to talk about the Hamilton Stadium.
The debate on location has been incredibly active, and I have to say it’s encouraging to see such a passionate level of community involvement. The City has been a strong supporter since very early days of the bid, so we appreciate the energy and drive it continues to bring to the Games. I look forward to this intensity of broad engagement carrying on right through 2015.
I’ll reiterate a few significant considerations:
The decision that has to be made is on location, which goes hand-in-hand with the associated financial implications.
As well, this is a local decision. The Hamilton community will have to live with its decision far into the future, so the responsibility must remain in this community.
Finally – legacy is fundamental to the City’s involvement, and this legacy speaks to the lasting value of the stadium to this community long after the Games are over. In other words – how will the facility be used? What is the ongoing cost and revenue potential, and, who is financially responsible?
These are not considerations unique to the Hamilton Stadium – every one of our venue partners across the region have to incorporate these factors into their plans.
With those considerations, the community has two location options and economic factors to evaluate.
Toronto 2015 also has been evaluating a number of scenarios.
Shifting sports is a very positive option, and we’re continuing our assessment. We’re optimistic with how this may work, but there still are pieces to be worked out. Our Board of Directors today agreed that we should explore a shift further – that is, moving Athletics and building the soccer component.
We urge the decision-makers to ask the tough questions about each location to clearly understand the ongoing financial implications to future generations.
Ultimately, Toronto 2015 will act in the best interests of the Games – we’ll deliver a great Games, and a great legacy.
Kevin Werner: Sorry, I wanted to ask you, I know you’ve mentioned that – the location of the stadium needs to be made by the local municipality. Yet would – does the Toronto 2015 still take a position that it would rather have it on the West Harbor because it seems to be to able to be more accommodating for athletes rather than the West Hamilton?
Ian Troop: We have never taken a position Kevin.
Kevin Werner: Yes, I know.
Ian Troop: We voiced – we mysteriously objective this whole thing.
Kevin Werner: Yes.
Ian Troop: So, you know, we think both sites can work and both sites have pros and cons from the city standpoint and it’s up to the city to sort it through. Both sites have different economic realities given you know, income revenue potentials going forward so it – that’s why it gets back to – you know, the folks that are going to be paying the freight for the next – in the years to come better make a good wise decision on what site makes the most sense.
Kevin Werner: Okay. And with regard to the velodrome again, where is that at the moment, I mean, it just seems to be getting lost when talking about the stadium?
Ian Troop: Yeah. That’s true actually it is fairly taking a back seat and which is not a bad thing right now, we have got – Hamilton is getting actually report backs on the business plan and look – what they commissioned was a study that looked at variety of different velodromes to understand what makes a velodrome work, what revenue producing activities can be inside it and that helps us frame that business plan that legacy, the business legacy that I spoke about that’s so important in the stadium as well. So, you know, we can let it follow the stadium decision and that’s what we are planning to do right now.
Kevin Werner: Does it need to be with the stadium?
Ian Troop: No, we are not making any pre-ordained discussion on where it needs to be. I think we will learn a lot more when we get the study back. I mean we are keeping an open mind.
Kevin Werner: So I just wanted to understand there is going to be no track and field at the Hamilton stadium, it will be replaced by soccer games, how many are we talking about?
Ian Troop: Lots, a number of factors I mean, we have to still sort this also, I wouldn’t say its cast and stone yet although I think we are all thinking that it makes sense, you know, one of the big factors for us is that when the games were schedule originally at BMO field there was a turf facility and because it was turf it could handle lot more games, now that BMO is grass one of the things were getting back from TFC and MLSC as they just can’t handle game load like we had scheduled so we need another bonafide mark key facility. So it will have between it and Joy stadium you will have a soccer hub in Hamilton. 30 odd games probably when this is all said and done I don’t know the exact number yet, we are still working it through but it’s going to carry a good chunk majority of soccer.
Kevin Werner: And is August 12, still the drop-dead date for council to make a decision?
Ian Troop: I think so, you know, yes, it is, I mean, because we are rapidly closing election nearing time and so we need to get that settle down and decided before you are going into that kind of blackout period attributed to the elections.
Kevin Werner: So no more extensions?
Ian Troop: No.
Kevin Werner: Okay. Thank you.
http://www.toronto2015.org/lang/en/news/post-board-of-directors-meeting-regular-update-by-chair.html
East Mountain it is! No parking, no access, no concerts, no Ti-Cats! I’m not entirely comfortable sitting in a stadium built on the “fill” of the West Harbour. That is on the water right? You thought Venice was sinking??? Go ahead and build it on the West Harbour. Once the Toronto Games are over, it can sit there as the world’s biggest pigeon coop. Go East Mountain!
EAST MOUNTAIN is the BEST location. Who ever suggested the West Harbour needs their head examined. There is NO infrastructure; access is extremely limited; etc. etc. Availability of parking is a huge problem now. The argument to bring ppl to downtown Hamilton?? For what?? Shouldn’t the objective be bring ppl to HAMILTON…the mountain has restaurants and stores too, plus, they’re NOT boarded up!!!
The West Harbour IS a beautiful area, to be nutured and developed in a way that is both complementing and attractive to propery owners and visitors. If developed properly, the area has the potential to be a first class attraction. Sticking stadiums and highrise buildings is NOT the answer.
Is one of the reasons the City is pushing the West Harbour site because they were premature in buying up property, thinking, the ppls of Hamilton would jump at a ill-advised decision? Like the decision they made a few years back to up-root all the trees in Gore Park, take the fountain out and put huge boulders in. Or how about…the list is long.
Hamilton has the potential to be so much more than a losing football team.
If you provide good, entertaining, affordable sporting events, and actually win sometimes, people will come regardless of parking concerns. Just ask the Toronto Maple Leafs.
The West Harbour location may seem difficult to navigate for those used to big green signs overhead on the Linc or the Red Hill, but the reality is that having a stadium with other amenities nearby that are pedestrian and transit friendly, will mean less of a panicked exodus at the end of an event. We can walk along the Waterfront trail to stretch the legs after hours of sitting in stadium seats, get dinner at an outdoor cafe on James St N, or take the kids over to Pier 4 to run around on the tugboat and get tired out before the drive home. Rather than a mass exodus on a road that floods weekly and only leads out of the area, we’ll have people staying and spending and appreciating the effort of the people who gave it to them.
Gord and Angie McNulty say:
August 2, 2010 at 10:13 amMy wife Angie and I support the West Harbour site for the many reasons outlined by its proponents.
We don’t buy the concerns about lack of accessibility to the West Harbour. Major events always attract crowds and if people want to attend them, they will find a way to get there. The Canada Day fireworks at the harbour and at Niagara Falls are good examples, as is Caribana in Toronto. People continue to flock to these events whatever the congestion. The football crowds at the harbour could be managed with street closings, reroutings, parking at the lots downtown and at the waterfront, etc.
On the other hand, the idea of building a massive parking lot of up to 6,800 spaces in a greenfield on the East Mountain should be a non-starter in this day and age. It’s really short-sighted from an environmental viewpoint. It will promote more suburban sprawl and quite possibly exacerbate the run-off that has led to flooding on the Red Hill Parkway.
As for the Tiger-Cats, and I am a longtime season ticket holder, Scott Mitchell was out of line to say that the team won’t play at the West Harbour. That would be like me saying I will never buy a ticket to an East Mountain game. I’m quite confident that another CFL owner would be interested in playing at a new state-of-the-art stadium in the West Harbour. Corporate sponsors, as well, would be interested in sponsoring a harbour stadium. In fact, there was a story by John Kernaghan in the Spectator, May 30, 2009, quoting two highly placed sources who indicated a corporate sponsor was ready to put up $25 million for naming rights at a new stadium. As a longtime CFL fan, I don’t buy CFL commissioner Mark Cohon’s threat that a vote for anything other than the East Mountain would mean the end of the CFL in Hamilton.
So the West Harbour is definitely our choice as the best for the city, the Pan Am Games and the Ticats or whatever CFL team plays in Hamilton.
I trust Bob Young’s business sense. I vote for the east mountain site.
A similar venue with an existing professional sports tenant and host to myriad other “cultural events” has for the past 20+ years failed to provide the promised revitalization of the core, although it too regularly attracts thousands of visitors to the core (and has played host to large track and field events in the past), is situated at a major crossroads of existing public transportation (both HSR and GO routes), and is on the planned LRT route.
Without full disclosure of the business model to support the decision, an estiamte of the economic impact and the overall lifestyle impact on the neighbourhood (pro & con views), I am baffled by the suggestion that a new stadium that will be without a major tenant (as indicated on numerous occasions by said tenant), surrounded by a road system deomstrably incapable of handling the anticipated extra traffic, will miraculously catalyze the “revitalization” of the northwest end (which is already undergoing significant positive transformation, unlike the area around Ivor Wynn Stadium which COULD use the boost and cash infusion to help rebuild a once vibrant commerical area the rest of the city conveniently seems to ignore).
The TiCats business model, and that of the PanAm games, must focus not only on “local” visitors, but also “day visitors” from the GTA and Southern Ontario not likely to overnight in the city – and looking at the reality of the transit system that will be in place for 2015, and the current cultural reliance on the use of personal transportation, these guests are unlikely to drive 30+ minutes to the edge of the city only to remotely park/pay to take public transportation into a downtown venue, wander aimlessly around looking for a nearby restaurant, and later wait in a queue only to spend yet more money to take transit back out to their personal vehicle. The alternative will be traffic mayhem akin to trying to get out of Rich Stadium or downtown Buffalo and across the border after a Sabres or Bills game – hours of traffic tie ups and numerous frustrated drivers and pedestrians alike.
My preference would be to rebuild and revitalize the current Ivor Wynn site and neighbouring properties, or select an east harbour site with better visibility and access, rather than produce another white elephant of a venue left to decay in ‘the core’ while amassing untold millions in operating costs and very few events to offset the losses.
Locating the stadium in the West Harbor is just plain STUPID!!! Freddy is an imbecile along with his other circus monkeys Chad Collins, Sam Merulla, and Brian McHattie. Id like a straight answer if at all possible…WHY THE HELL WASNT THIS ADDRESSED IN 2003 WHEN HAMILTON WAS BIDDING FOR THE COMMONWEALTHS???!!!????
Mr Whitehead you are a smart man, so I am confident that you will make the right choice and support the East Mountain!!!
Thank You…
The West Harbour already possesses Dundurn Castle, the Haida, The marine Discovery Centre, Pier 4 Park, Bayfront Park, walking and bike trails. It is a short walk from Copps Coliseum, Hamilton Place, The Hamilton Convention Centre, the Art Gallery, the Central Library, Farmer’s Market and Hess Village. Seriously, with all this, do we need a stadium to rejuvenate the downtown??? If these things couldn’t rejuvenate downtown, certainly a 10 night, Prime Time Stadium won’t do it either. Besides, wouldn’t it be nice for mountain taxpayers to have some of their tax monies go toward “city building” as well??/ C’mon, share the wealth down-towners!
East Mountain is the way go without any doubt. Will be great for fans to get in and out of the Stadium quickly. After reading most of the comments on this page I don’t see too many sports fans commenting. The West Harbor is not a sports Stadium area at all. I would love to see the downtown revived but this is not the way for it to be successful.
I was always in favour of the West Harbour location and the recent revelation that the East Mountain location would cost us $40 to $80 million more has only reinforced that.
EAST MOUNTAIN for sure, easy access for anyone and everyone, in town or out of town, room for expansion as well as parking also with the constant growth on the east mountain/glanbrook area it will expand on job opportunities for our children in the future.
We already have one white elephant downtown, we don’t need another.
go west harbour
As far as i am concerned they can build the stupid stadium in the Bay
I prefer no stadium if it involves taxpayer money. If the city wants to go ahead I am ambivalent towards the west harbour vs. east mountain — well maybe slightly more favourable towards east mountain but only by a narrow sliver. Hands down, no stadium is the best way to go for me.
Sam Meralla from day one believed that Bob Young was bluffing when it comes to the Tiger-Cats leaving Hamilton and he was right! Having said that if they tear down and move Scott Park arena and use that park along with Brian Timmins Stadium as a Parking Lot and put signs off the QEW and Burlington St. exit to Gage St. and Cannon St. they would be able to address the parking and road access issues. A reifurbished Ivor Winn Stadium does not address the issue of Economic Spinnoff since it is a residential area which prevents any concerts from being held unless they put sound barriers around the stadium and there is no major shopping centres in that area.